Curse

Mordakai · Sep 13, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastm

what's the point in instantly warping up from the first mission to the last one? you won't even get a über armor like when you where running straight towards droknar's forge...

That's not the point at all. I don't want to skip the game, I just want to enjoy it on my terms.

If I want a particular skill or collector item, why shouldn't I be able to go after that first, then do the missions?

Or skip the missions entirely, and just get to the Arenas or whatever else there is I want to do?

The better question is: Why do people want gates? You can still play the game you want to, and go through the missions in order never stray off the beaten path, etc. But why do you want to force me to play the same way? My decision doesn't effect your ability to enjoy the game, but your wanting gates sure as hell effects mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastm

and it's not like faction is that long anyway. You're whining about that too, remember? the issue isn't if you get checkpoints in the main quest or not, but the size of the explorable areas... :/

Yeah, I wish Factions was bigger. Frankly, the Gates are just there to artificially lengthen a short game. That's the truth. Take out the gates, and most people would skip through the boring city parts once they did the quests with one character. I hate the fact we are forced to go back and forth through the city just to get to the "cool" Luxon and Kurzick areas...

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

It forces linearity. Some people, believe it or not, like being told where to go next; I didn't know The Wilds existed until after my first two characters had beaten the game.

my idea of fun is actually being able to get lost.

literally lost with no idea what is around the next corner, what will i find if i go this way instead of that way, finding a neat little something someone put there for someone who happened to stumble over it.

Factions gate system shuts you out from that fun

also since you can get the final 30 attribute points fast easy and early i move that the attribute quests in chapter 1 be available BEFORE having to do those miserable missions instead of AFTER

The Herbalizer · Sep 13, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

It forces linearity. Some people, believe it or not, like being told where to go next; I didn't know The Wilds existed until after my first two characters had beaten the game.

I did realise the jungle existed until like 6 months of owning guild wars lol

gabrial heart · Sep 13, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I hope there won't be locked gates. I still get a good laugh at those (even in cantha) that aren't at the level everyone else is when they get to a mission town and wonder why no one will party with em. I think they might actually do it like they did in prophecies, with that nice long run to droks or some such deterant for people to just walk to high level areas. We already know they are doing the noob island deal again, so I doubt you'll be able to get off there at level 1.

blastm · Sep 13, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The better question is: Why do people want gates? You can still play the game you want to, and go through the missions in order never stray off the beaten path, etc. But why do you want to force me to play the same way? My decision doesn't effect your ability to enjoy the game, but your wanting gates sure as hell effects mine.

You'r right. the thing is, if you got a better weapon or the right elite skill, you'r even making it easier for everyone else.

and keep in mind that even i can enjoy the kind of freedom you'r given in an elder scroll.
But i can't understand why people are complaining. I mean, in almost every rpg, you HAVE to go trough all the game and to buy those lame copper/iron/silver sword before you get rewarded with the god-like-end-game-weapon.
Unlike most companies who tend to restrain your access to some areas with the level of the monsters, Anet is balancing the game for lvl20.
But it's not like you don't have to deserve that collector item you talked about just because you've reached that level in a few hours.

Sable Phoenix · Sep 13, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

The better question is: Why do people want gates? You can still play the game you want to, and go through the missions in order never stray off the beaten path, etc. But why do you want to force me to play the same way? My decision doesn't effect your ability to enjoy the game, but your wanting gates sure as hell effects mine.

Yeah, I wish Factions was bigger. Frankly, the Gates are just there to artificially lengthen a short game. That's the truth. Take out the gates, and most people would skip through the boring city parts once they did the quests with one character. I hate the fact we are forced to go back and forth through the city just to get to the "cool" Luxon and Kurzick areas...

You, my dear, have hit the proverbial nail squarely on its proverbial head.

Forced linearity is bad; I can't even bring myself to play through Factions again now that I've beaten it with one character. If Nightfall has locked gates, I will not be buying it. It's that simple.

I've heard plenty of other people express the same sentiment. I think ANet had best listen to their playerbase on this or they'll notice a hit in sales.

Horseman Of War · Sep 13, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I actually like the gates. SOME of them.

Makes sense that HzH and Cavalon have them. You cant argue that the Palace gates need to stay closed- do to the way the map-missions are laid out.

I hope that they put in gates, although sparingly.... I dont see a reason why the gate for Naphui Quarter exists, but other than that; they kind of make sense at least to me.

I agree with the above poster that it was a device used to 'lengthen' the game... and maybe if they had only HALF the gates, then everyone would be happy.

It got kind of old seeing lvl 3 toons in 15k citadel/grotto armor... that just isnt right... droks? fine.

After you beat the game, you should have all gates unlocked... I cant believe I have to spend the next few days questing the luxon faction just to get to th Hatchery for my protector title.

Its funny- Ive done shing jea island about 4 times (including the one deleted char) and pre-searing ascalon about 50 times.... but I cant bring myself to quest out the Bazaar for the life of me.

Sable Phoenix · Sep 13, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

It may make sense, but it destroys fun.

In a game, fun takes precedence over making sense every time.

Kakumei · Sep 13, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

my idea of fun is actually being able to get lost.

Okay. That's yours. That's not mine, as I previously stated.

I've taken eight+ characters through Factions, and honestly the only part I hate is Nahpui. Everything else is great, and I didn't mind repeating it all over and over--while Factions is certainly shorter than Prophecies, it's several times more enjoyable. No wandering around, wondering where to go next, have I missed anything--it's all right there, right in front of you on a neat list.

Forced linearity is a wonderful thing, and I certainly hope Nightfall has it as well. Mind you, it's hardly make or break--I'll be buying a copy for each of my accounts on release day regardless.

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastm

But i can't understand why people are complaining. I mean, in almost every rpg, you HAVE to go trough all the game and to buy those lame copper/iron/silver sword before you get rewarded with the god-like-end-game-weapon.
:

and this is exactly the point.

there are no * god-like-end-game-weapon* for you to get.

the skin may be god like but the stats are the same as that trusty sword you got early.

the game lets you buy top stat armor/etc right off the island so why screw it up with gates just to force you to stay in a maze.

if they keep the gates to filter out noobs those same gates will filter out many casual gamers who will feel that IT IS NOT WORTH THE EFFORT TO DO IT AGAIN.

then they will look at how many hours of *fun* they had before they said no more.

one character in a short time will not be worth the money.

i got many times my moneys worth from chapter one

i dont feel i got my moneys worth of fun from FACTIONS and went back to Tyria.

however i preordered Nightfall because it will still more than even out

Horseman Of War · Sep 13, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

this is totally speculation:

I think the people who dont care (or even notice) the gate thing, are the people who are dedicated 'pvers' who really enjoy just going through every single quest.

The people who want to skip through and stuff, are the people who LIKE the pve, but have the overall goal of PvP with your rp character (im one of these ppl). I cant say I didnt pay for a droks run the second and third time around prophecies myself- but the kids in ascalon arena say Im a cheater for it? This sort of thing makes it come down to who has 2k to blow and who doesnt, which is an imbalance- while not TRUE pvp (come on ascalon arena is a joke lol, and shiverpeak- lol thats where we go to feel tough at lvl 15)

Factions kept the max armor pretty much right at the start as opposed to prophs which had about 6 useless armor vendors (yeah i want 51 AL for queen farming...)

There should be gates on towns where you get 15k armor. Or possibly even on the challenge missions (zos chrivos) or other 'special' but non-essential places. This would make it worth it to the individual to do the quest attatched, whithout hindering the people who want the cut-n-dry.

And hopefully they wont allow you access to the underworld until much later in the game (comparing Factions again) I couldnt believe how soon it popped up in Factions- and how un-glorious it was at that. Come on, the quest for ascension is attainable with very little time or effort put in.

Im starting to digress... gonna find another thread to make an ass out of myself on. gg.

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

No wandering around, wondering where to go next, have I missed anything--it's all right there, right in front of you on a neat list.

Forced linearity is a wonderful thing, and I certainly hope Nightfall has it as well. Mind you, it's hardly make or break--I'll be buying a copy for each of my accounts on release day regardless.

OMG i think she is serious.

i thought that first post was a joke (honest)

Sable Phoenix · Sep 13, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

this is totally speculation:

I think the people who dont care (or even notice) the gate thing, are the people who are dedicated 'pvers' who really enjoy just going through every single quest.

The people who want to skip through and stuff, are the people who LIKE the pve, but have the overall goal of PvP with your rp character (im one of these ppl).

Actually, that's wrong.

I loathe, despise, and otherwise abhor PVP. I play PVE exclusively. And I hate locked gates.

One of the biggest draws to PVE for me is exploration, and locked gates completely kill that. What, I get to the next town and I can only "explore" the mission that I just played through? Wow... that's fun. Even the truly explorable are boxed in by locked towns. There are few things more frustrating than uncovering a map of an entirely new area, getting to the other end and seeing a portal icon, and finding it locked.

Not to mention they force you to approach the side quests from a certain area; I can't tell you how many times I did a Jade Sea quest, which was right next to the gate for some town or other, but since the gate was locked I could not just exit from there and avoid all the butt-ugly and annoying monsters in between, I had to go to another town across the zone and fight the entire way from one end to the other just to talk to someone for some FedEx mission.

There should be no locked gates, period.

Sheriff · Sep 13, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

OMG i think she is serious.

i thought that first post was a joke (honest)

Me too! Forced linearity a good thing?! These people give RPGs in general and GW in particular a bad name

Jeremy Untouchable · Sep 13, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I really hope anet dosnt lock gates, In gw1 the most fun parts are when you fight towards a zone and see the gate, and find that new town. really blows when you fight towards the zone and an npc says, "no can enter"...........................................M EGA GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Mordakai · Sep 13, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I've taken eight+ characters through Factions, and honestly the only part I hate is Nahpui. Everything else is great, and I didn't mind repeating it all over and over--while Factions is certainly shorter than Prophecies, it's several times more enjoyable. No wandering around, wondering where to go next, have I missed anything--it's all right there, right in front of you on a neat list.

Hmm, funny, right before you go to the Luxon or Kurzick side, there's a total loss of where to go. There's no primary quest (you completed the Sunjiang District mission, and are taken to Maatu Keep). I mapped to all the Kurzick cities, to no avail. Finally, I looked online to see you had to talk to Jamei! Geez, thanks for telling me. Now I have to click on everyone with an exclamation point to continue with the Main Story?!?

Now, maybe there are times like that in Prophecy, but I can't remember a time where you have No Missions to complete and No primary quests to do. Perhaps you can think of a time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Forced linearity is a wonderful thing, and I certainly hope Nightfall has it as well. Mind you, it's hardly make or break--I'll be buying a copy for each of my accounts on release day regardless.

That's great - for you. As I said, not having gates doesn't change the game for you. You can still follow the primary quests and avoid any sidetrips, and be perfectly happy and content.

But having gates ruins the game for me. See the difference?

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

Me too! Forced linearity a good thing?! These people give RPGs in general and GW in particular a bad name

i actually think i have a workable compromise on her not wandering around getting lost as well as letting me explore.

have a signpost pointing the right direction in addition to the compass arrow so there is no way to get lost while i can wander to my hearts content.

as for missing quests have a log addition you can click that gives any quest you have missed and an arrow to the NPC.

that way she can get them all in order and i can get them as i find them.

that should work for both of us

EternalTempest · Sep 13, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I think part of the gates had to be implemented was to be able to maintain storyline and be able to back track in to mission area's and reflect advancement in the plot. Hard to descripe but the way levels were designed, General Cho's Estate, Temple zone were "dual" zones.

Also It seemed a bit ackward with all the gates at first in factions, but going through factions at least once, I didn't notice them taken my 2nd character through.

Rathcail · Sep 13, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Now I have to click on everyone with an exclamation point to continue with the Main Story?!?

Yes, in the area you arrive after finishing a mission. That's the way it is in every mission in Factions and Sunjiang District is no different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Now, maybe there are times like that in Prophecy, but I can't remember a time where you have No Missions to complete and No primary quests to do. Perhaps you can think of a time?

The primary quest was there. Can hardly blame the game if you chose to ignore it.

Mordakai · Sep 13, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathcail

Yes, in the area you arrive after finishing a mission. That's the way it is in every mission in Factions and Sunjiang District is no different.

Really? Because I disctinctly recall usually having a big star of where to go next.

Maybe in a couple of places (like the Emperor's Hand, after City under Attack, I think?), you didn't.

In any case, it was confusing to me, because I'd been to Maatu keep like 3 times before, and didn't bother searching for exclamation points this time!

It would help to always have a Primary Quest to point you in the right direction. Why would anyone object to this?